you really should not leave because of me i tried to help while i was their but some did not want it i will not be joining any other clans this was my first and will be my last brimstone do not tell somebody something then change it all around what happened at the meeting is not what we had disscused next time dont tell anything if you really dont whant someone else to know you know i really hated keeping everyone out of the loop remember to vote for wes

no dan what they did was not right and i back you up 100%

You know what, now I am getting pissed. I am nice and have been nice, and you want to keep attacking me, and there is still no accusation that I can respond to besides this abstract one that you keep throwing out??? I still do not know WTF exactly you are talking about. I told you exactly what I did know at that time. We talked for quite a while. We talked about probably voting a leader in, about the ministry positions, about having to come up with a solution for the age thing, and Vent channels. What did I miss? If I did miss something can't you forgive me? Remember it was me who voluntarily brought you down to ask your opinion, and why you may ask? Because of your donations, you deserved a right to know. The same reason you are hanging me out to dry. Most of you guys do not see the time I dump into being your admin. I went from gaming 3 hours a night, to about 3 hours in the past week, because I am taking care of setting up a paypal account, going to a bank and opening accounts, settling down quitters and dealing with issue after issue, drawing up 2 pages of notes, so that everyone can follow along at the meeting and that it is organized, and finding out people's opinions because I actually do care what you think. I run two businesses, have a wife and kid, another on the way, I help run a large program at Church, and every once in a blue moon would like to sit back and play guitar. I get 5-6 hours of sleep per night. Maybe you could be thankful that I donate my time to help organize this. If you haven't noticed, I pay to do this too. I really did not expect this from you Dan. You go and talk to everyone here about your beef with me, but you won't talk to me about it. I haven't even had a chance to apologize if I did something wrong. I have been executed without a fuckin trial. Really fair. really fuckin fair.


Second, I have one more thing to say. We have an established policy to the way this system is run. Clan members elect three leaders, who govern the clan. (it is not some power trip that I have come up with, in fact I will be stepping down voluntarily when my second daughter is born) Money does not buy a vote. I don't know to what extent that you felt it does, but my opinion is that donators should view their money as a donation, not stock in a company. If you feel that you are giving more than you are receiving, then stop giving, and talk to people, or better yet, run for leader and change things. Or bring it up at a meeting, and express what you want to say. Have any of you been silenced at any meeting?

sing it brimmy you dont need to be the scapegoat for all of this.....Like you said we would have some falling out but we will get through this, and in my opinion the sooner the better, if anyone else wishes to resign do it and get out and lock the post im not having another 2 page forum over it, this drama has to end..

And if you do resign due to you feeling your clan has backstabbed you or because of another member dont be a dumbass and go post that you were invited into ein by redwing on eins forums cause that makes you a liar.....BE HONEST....

sory but i never posted anything on eins forums i dont know who you talked to but get your facts straight brimstone what we disscussed was not at all what happened i dont know who you disscussed the ministry thing whith but it was not me yes everyone has a right to this clan whether they donate or not also i asked you to keep my name out for the leader position but you put it in your notes anyway you are the one that made me feel obligated to run when i really did not want to yes hobo red did ask me to join ein but i told him no thanks i had already disscussed this with wes brimstone i did appreciate you telling some things but if you tell someone that you you are going to keep them up to date on things then you should when your notes came out i was to dumbfounded to even respond at the time as for trying to talk to you you already said you where not around enough ya understandable but almost every time i saw you in vent you where in the meeting room i dont have admin and am not going to chase you down now do you understand

Dan, I don't think Hobo is accusing you of going to EIN. I think that was directed elsewhere.

I explained the ministry thing to nearly everyone the best that I could, and I know we talked about it too with Valk in the room although not all the details were finalized. I told you that if you don't want leadership, that different ministries would be open, as well as a vice leadership position (which I failed to mention at the last meeting, for no other reason than I forgot to write it down and I went off my notes.) I told nearly everybody else too, and I am sure that it was said, because I read off what I had to you. Dan, you asked me after the meeting to put your name in, and there was no pressure to say that then. Did I misunderstand you? The day before, you were waffling and it would have been exceptionally disrespectful not to offer you that opportunity after our conversation. In my notes it says verbatim:

7. Third Clan leader – we will be having elections. Hobo and Wes are expected to run. Also heard interest from Cav, Fallen and maybe Danchaz. Explain benefits of election: don’t get mad at leaders, you have a say in this clan, can’t bitch if you don’t vote or if you don’t run for office, how a republic works. Benjamin Franklin “we gave you a republic if you can keep it”

I don't think that is pressure. It certainly wasn't meant to be.

Anyways, I think there was a misunderstanding of what I was going to provide you. It was not my intention to say that every revision would be passed by you. I don't think I rammed anything down your throat or anyone else's at the meeting. I had heavily weighed the option of appointing a third leader, but in truth a big part of the reason there was a vote was because both you and Valk were for it. You kept saying you wanted the people in clan to have more of a say. I could have passed the 16 year old age limit through leadership as well, but I put it to the council in a big part because of what you said. You may not get everything you wanted, but you have definitely been influential.

With me being in the meeting room, you can always PM me. I had to get Valk's approval on a handful of items, because he was not going to be there and time was running out, and finish my notes for you guys in peace.

i dont have admin and am not going to chase you down now do you understand

Are you are too good to chase me down, but with all I have on my plate, I need to come get your approval on some revisions, when I tried to go over as much as possible with you already? (I spent at least an hour talking with you) No sir, I do not get it, and that's kind of offensive to me. I did not deem anything that I brought to the meeting a major change in policy, nor a major change from what I believe was told to you.

I don't think anything that you mentioned was anything other than a misunderstanding, but now we are short another good member, because of this quick-tempered thinking. You take offense at stuff that you really ought not get worked up over. The bottom line was that you were a heavily respected member of this clan, and one that I trusted. That's really why this bothered you. It wasn't about the changes so much as the respect I believe, but you already had it from all of us, and you just didn't bother to look.

I will tell you the same thing I tell my wife, when she gets pissed at me and I have no clue what I did. I am not a mind-reader, and if you get something stuck in your head that should have happened but didn't, I would have hoped that through my previous actions I would have earned benefit of the doubt. This would have been easy to resolve through a simple sit-down, since I did not intend to offend you.

yes i know you dont have to get my approval for anything but no you never did disscuss the ministry positions with me iknow you have alot on your plate i told you that because that is what i thought was expected of me after you put my name in their you could have left me out i know alot of the clan likes me but you always went and talked to valk on your own if you tell someone that you will let them have a say beforehand then do it do not go into a private channel and disscuss it you dont have to be a mind reader do what you say i dont know who you disscused these minitry positoins with but it was not me sorry you have to much to do should not add to it but maybe it was hobo and valk we disscused my part in this clan i told you i did not think i was suited for the job for i did not have the experiance for it i told you if i half to i would do it but i thought wes was it if not him tthem hobo why did you decide to even put my name in that post is beond me uncalled for because i had already talked to people about it magor fopa next time you should just do what you tell someone im sorry but that is the way it is tainted got two you took the third and im out

sorrry brimstone i really dont have agrudge against you i know you have alot to do and dont need any more aggrivation sorry to put this on you but if you want my advice ask for it do not avoid me yu new where i was at all times i do not dissapear if you really want ro talk about this let me know i dont really have a problem with you

i think this whole thing is rediculous. it was a misunderstanding and we lost an important member because of it. Dan he cannot discuss everything with you right away and if he put your name on the vote, simply ask to have him take it off. Thats all you had to do, its simple to do too. We kept you in the loop probably the most along with hobo. Ideas me and Brim agreed on we really did not need to discuss but we still brought it up with you. And if you wanted to be able to go into the meeting room you could have asked me and i could of given you authorization to do it in like 5 seconds. This whole thing is disapointing.

Dan, I am sorry about the unintentional aggravation that I or this situation may have caused you too. This will be my last post on the subject, as it is emotionally draining, time consuming, and it has been covered to death at this point. I hope you come on vent. If you want to talk more about the incident, I will do so, and if you do not, that is perfectly fine too. Hopefully, we are bigger then the sum of these events. You were my friend, and despite the aggravation, still are my friend. You are a good guy, and I appreciate you not leaving SMo for another clan, just for personal reasons. It is far more palatable and IMO respectable.